The Posting of The Stories
Dec. 12th, 2005 11:47 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
Since there have been some concerns raised over the fact that the stories are now going to be posted to a website, I'd like to clarify some things.
The original intention was to post the stories to LJ via either Al, myself, or an admin account that Al and I would set up, in order to maintain the anonymity (damn, I had to think about spelling that *g*) of the authors.
Then we had 82 people sign up.
LJ would have been a lovely way to post the stories (and believe us we thought of everything, including setting up a completely different LJ to just post the stories in), but ultimately, it comes down to one simple fact. Posting 82 stories on the
sga_santa community would absolutely flood people's friends lists.
We decided that the easiest way to get around this was to post them to a website and to post a link to the index page in the LJ.
When the reveal is done (and we're aiming for Jan 1st with this), I will remove the story of anyone who wishes it and include an external link to wherever they have posted the story.
If anyone still has issues with the way this is going to be done, then please let me know.
The original intention was to post the stories to LJ via either Al, myself, or an admin account that Al and I would set up, in order to maintain the anonymity (damn, I had to think about spelling that *g*) of the authors.
Then we had 82 people sign up.
LJ would have been a lovely way to post the stories (and believe us we thought of everything, including setting up a completely different LJ to just post the stories in), but ultimately, it comes down to one simple fact. Posting 82 stories on the
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
We decided that the easiest way to get around this was to post them to a website and to post a link to the index page in the LJ.
When the reveal is done (and we're aiming for Jan 1st with this), I will remove the story of anyone who wishes it and include an external link to wherever they have posted the story.
If anyone still has issues with the way this is going to be done, then please let me know.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 12:20 am (UTC)What is stopping people from switching so they aren't 'watching' the comm? Then they are free to browse at will.
Would it be possible for us to be responsible for our own unveiling? As in, submitting a link, rather than a fic, which is only unlocked on the launch date? The long and the short of it is that the authors of these fics aren't going to stay 'secret' for very long, as they are inevitably going to spread through the LJ comms - so there doesn't seem much point in being too serious in hiding them. If they are posted and then replaced with links it will meet the same conclusion: people will know who submitted the fic - so why go to the extra bother of uploading and then deleting and replacing with a link?
Wouldn't it be easier to post a link in the first place?
After some recent events I was concerned about this project anyway, but I want to be sure that my fic is formatted the way it was intended to be.
Because I'm a picky bint.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:38 am (UTC)Here's my question, and I'd have to check the rules to be sure.
But is there a moratorium on posting to other forums under your own name? That's usually how these things work. You get your anonymous story posting and you have to wait a week or so before being allowed to reveal yourself to the general public.
As for ensuring format, it's possible for you so format it and save it as an html file and send that. I'm sure the webmasters would be happy to post it as is.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 07:51 am (UTC)"Because this is a secret santa all reponses are to be posted through the moderators. The names of who did what will then be revealed when all requests are accounted for."
But as they're going to post links to external pages now, anyway that will be a literal thing with the unveilings. Assuming people don't post to their own webpages with obscure names that don't connect to them, or something like that.
Hmm. Well, that's precisely the issue I've already had, so I can't really agree.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 12:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 01:22 am (UTC)It involves a single post and a full collection on Live Journal. As
As I said earlier, unless I can be assured that nothing I submit is altered in any way -- and that includes *adding* a rating or warning -- I will not be at all comfortable submitting here. You may wonder what the difference is between an LJ post I can't control and an off-site archive, but that is exactly the difference. I gave permission, when deciding to participate, for one -- the Live Journal posting -- and I did not give permission for an off-site archive.
Frankly, it's a LiveJournal holiday exchange and I feel -- and I'm sure I'm not alone -- that it should *stay* on LiveJournal.
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 01:36 am (UTC)- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 01:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:04 am (UTC)Second, I think a masterlist -- like that linked above -- would make perfect sense *and* be on LJ.
Third, I did not give permission for my work to be archived on a website outside of LJ. Period. I would not have signed up for this exchange had an outside archive that was not automated (so, say, not like Yuletide) been stipulated at the outset.
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:40 am (UTC)We just have two opposite opinions on this topic of posting fics to a website or not.
but out of curiousity because this is bothering me, what do you have against websites and having your fic archived outside of LJ???
I'm not the only one that wants to know either. I've been having a running discussion with a friend of mine that noticed that people aren't posting their fics anymore outside of LJs and that the website archives aren't posting nearly as many stories as they used to.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 03:19 am (UTC)I have nothing against website and archive posting: I have my own website here (http://www.koanju.com/) with my co-writer, we have a page at Skyehawke (http://archive.skyehawke.com/authors.php?no=291), I archive my non-explicit Harry Potter work at FictionAlley.Org (http://www.fictionalley.org/), and I participate in Yuletide (http://www.yuletidetreasure.org/). I even occasionally allow my meta to be posted on websites when the request is directed to me. To say nothing of the fact that LJ is a website and, in its own way, an archive and communities themselves often have masterlists or archives in the form of the 'Memories' section.
My issue here is that until six hours ago the exchange rules in the userinfo itself stated that the fics would be posted to Live Journal and that, if I hadn't picked up on a casual comment that they were going to be archived on a website (here ()) the moderators of this community may never have mentioned it. My issue here is that at no point did I give permission for my work to be archived on a website that is not this community at LiveJournal.com.
Would you be okay if, say, you posted a fic to, say,
I did not give permission for my submission to be archived anywhere but this comminuty. When I signed up for this exchange I was under the impression -- because that was what was stated in the rules -- that it would only be archived here.
Yes, there are concerns that they will *ADD* (you use remove in your comment and in your rant on your LJ, but my concern is adding) a rating or warning that I do not wish to be attached to my work, but my primary problem is that the moderators are changing the rules at the last minute and in such a way that it violates what I agreed to upon signing up for this ficathon.
So, to make this absolutely clear: I have nothing against website archiving. I enjoy it on occasion. But I personally only archive on websites I trust and which I agree with philosophically -- they get my support because I like them and I put my work there because I trust that either a) I will be able to upload my own work like with Skyehawke or Yuletide or b) the moderation process has a firm system of checks, balances, and levels like with FictionAlley.
However, when I sign up for something on LJ, with the rules mentioning nothing about an off-site archive, then I expect it stay on Live Journal. I think this is a reasonable expectation and my reaction is not that "it's the end of the world" but rather that if a reasonable expectation is being thrown out of the water I wish for some assurances or I would rather independantly post my work and give it to my santa directly.
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 04:06 am (UTC)For me I think as long as the LJ community moderators give advance warning and explain their reasons for changing something I'm okay with that. (after all from what I understand this website isn't going to be there forever and ever) I think if I have one set of expectations for something I don't like it changing quickly or without warning. One week is enough advance warning for me and possibly most other other people.
I get what you are saying about them stating what they planned to do in the rules, however it's not like
I'm flexible enough to say okay the new way isn't that much different from posting on LJ, in fact a lot of LJ look like websites. The stories will still be avaible and people won't have their friend's lists bumped back 82 posts. I just don't think it occurred to them that anyone would have a problem if it's posted on the LJ or a webpage that says sga santa on the top.
I think next year if they decide to do this again they might post something about making a website if too many people sign up in the rules. I'm not sure if this is their first year doing this but I'm willing to make allowances for necessary changes.
I'll support which ever direction they decide to go either for a master list or a website or both.
Now one more question, would it have made a differnece if they wrote to everyone individually and asked permission to post our fics on a webpage instead of the LJ?
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 04:39 am (UTC)"webpage INSTEAD of the LJ" (emphasis mine)
As stands I have two choices: 1. I go along with something I'm not comfortable with and allow my fic to be posted on a website I did not expect or give permission for. 2. I refuse to do so, am withdrawn from participation, don't get the story I signed up for and do not get to *give* the story I have already written (and quite like) to the person I was assigned to.
In 2 clearly everyone loses, in 1 clearly I lose because it's something I'm uncomfortable with. They have not offered a 3 such as "For those who are not comfortable with this we will post to the LJ comm and merely link it from the webpage." (and even then, only if they had permission to link it from the webpage).
See, the thing is that no amount of advanced warning (save from the very outset) matters here because this isn't a volunteer community where each person is independantly posting -- it's an *exchange*.
I mean, aside from the two options above what options do you see? I refuse to default on this sort of thing unless I absolutely must (and we're talking 'came down with pneumonia, cannot sit up to type' or 'there is absolutely no way I can personally write this assignment, as I stated in my original post' -- in which case I'd ask to get it replaced -- must).
Therefore I'm going to have to let moonlettuce and alyse archive my fic somewhere I'm uncomfortable with it being archived because I don't want my assignment to miss out on a fic and, frankly, that just sucks.
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 05:15 am (UTC)Your 3 sounds like a good compromise. they might be able to do something like that? Though I'm going to try avoiding the topic about needing permission to link...There are two sides to that issue and there's like no winning.
but as for coming up with other solutions. I can't think of any at the moment. This really sounds like something you'll have to discuss with moonlettuce or Alyse. I don't want to say they'll do something when I have no more control than you on this issue.
however, I really appreciate you explaing your pov to me. I understand a little better now.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 07:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 08:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 12:24 pm (UTC)That's between me and the archivist. I'm not here to stir, I'm just making my point.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 12:35 pm (UTC)So take the comm off 'watch' and the problem will be solved.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:41 am (UTC)You know, I can get over the website thing. Not my prefered way of doing it but there you go. What I get over is the 11th hour changing of the rules without any consultation of the group or, better yet, permission to the archive on a place outside this community.
Do -you- see anything above (in the original post or elsewhere in the community) that assuades the utter lack of permission issue?
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 01:57 am (UTC)I guess to me LJ or website...as long as the story is readable it doesn't make that big a difference.
I think it also gives people not using LJ a chance to read the fics too. I don't think people should be obligated to get a LJ to enjoy the fandom or the fics, and it's slowly going that route. (anyway this is a separate issue all together)
I also don't think
I'm sure there is probably an alternative solution...but keep in mind that some people actually like the idea of keeping things anonymous for at least a week. If it's only 3 or 4 people who don't like the idea of having their story posted on a website, thats not enough people to make global wide changes. I mean what about the 3 or 4 people who really like the idea of sharing their story via a website? maybe there's a way to do both?
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:13 am (UTC)Is there anything wrong with posting them as they come in, then revealing authors later?
Also, not having done one of these before, I had no idea the original posts were to be anonymous. My fault for not reading carefully: To be lawyerly about it, the phrasing allows for all giftfics to be posted *by* December 24. You could start Christmas early and post the ones you have. If we aren't all procrastinators.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 05:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 05:24 am (UTC)It'll also take a lot of the pressure off the mods and not take the exchange away from the community.
- Andrea.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 02:48 am (UTC)Such a nice gift to the fandom as a whole.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 03:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 03:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 03:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:02 pm (UTC)Thanks
Date: 2005-12-13 12:41 pm (UTC)Re: Thanks
Date: 2005-12-13 11:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 01:19 pm (UTC)My only real issue, is that the due date is nearly upon us and I have been procrastinating over the end for two weeks. Erk. lol
Am still free for pinch hitting if needed *g*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:05 pm (UTC)::glomps you::
no subject
Date: 2005-12-13 11:21 pm (UTC)You're welcome? *g*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-15 03:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-15 09:00 pm (UTC)This is the impolite answer: When, and only when, you have the gumption and brains to sign your name to your comment can you tell me that I am pulling issues out of my arse. Feel free to fuck off now. kthxbi.